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2ney

Bios Restarts & High Load CPU Heat

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First of all thanks to all those that helped with advice on my proposed PC Build. I am happy to say I decided, ordered and built the following PC:

 

http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/user/c2ney/saved/ppN9TW

 

I ended up going for a true small factor pc and I am glad I did (love the corsair air 240) but this did mean I practically had to go down the water loop route... and spending more money than originally planning!

 

Generally despite slightly bending one of the heatspreader fins on the GTX 980 (I bent it back - seems ok - temps c.75C) the build went ok and everything seemed to be ok, I have also set my RAM up using the XMP profile in the motherboard BIOS.

 

 

That was until I noticed two issues. First off my pc, and this only happens on the first time you turn the pc on after the plug has been switched on, it appears to start booting only to reset instantly then boots up a little more to a Q-code of 71, before then resetting again and then boots fine after that. If I turn the PC off or restart again whilst the power is still on I don't have the issue, it only occurs on the first time the PC is turned on after the mains power is first turned on. I have tried removing all USB / connections and the GPU to see if it is these but it still does it and I can't for the life of me figure out why?

 

The second issue is that whilst everything seems to be working fine, games, windows 7, applications etc..  I ran a prime95 and my CPU temps were hitting 90C after a few minutes!

 

My cooling set up consists of a H100i water pump (plugged in to power, USB and fan pin) with a 240mm radiator at the front with 2 fans pulling air in from outside and another 2 fans blowing air onto it in the case and 1 final exhaust above the CPU to the top. The H100i pumps seems to be ok but I can't feel hot water going down either of the tubes and the radiator doesn't feel warm to touch. All case fans are plugged into PWM so increase/decrease as and when required. I have tried re-seating the pump, I have put some rubber washers on the back to make the bracket tighter to the motherboard so the thumbscrews tighten down and I have also tried applying new thermal paste (Arctic mx-4) via the spread and vertical line methods...

 

With both of these issues I am at a loss... I am tempted to ditch the H100i for something else to see if it works better . e.g. a H75?

 

Does anyone have any ideas on either of these?

 

 

Thanks

 

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Cheers I will give them a call...   weirdly my idles are better than on any cpu I have ever seen (mid to low 20's).

 

 

EDIT: I think I have solved it or at least improved it:

 

https://communities.intel.com/docs/DOC-23517

 

 

Basically looks like the BIOS was just unleashing it without restriction through overvoltage...  (that's my limited understanding). I applied the settings as per the Intel image and it dropped the temp down to mid/low 70s for most Cores (1 went up to 80 - I need to reapply thermal paste as I did a rubbish job last time around as it was 00:30 this morning).

 

Most of the settings I had on there at default were crazy - unrestrictive - and I believe it was pushing the clock speed up to 4.8GHz (48 multiplier for each core) so effectively applying an overclock.

Edited by 2ney
madwedge likes this

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Sorry,  I don't quite get why a small form factor meant you had to go with watercooling  - can you elaborate?

 

How are you applying the thermal paste? You should only be using a tiny amount and letting it spread out - use too much and it'll act as an insulator. Also, maybe it's me but three case fans and a watercooling loop in a mid-tower matx case sounds like massive overkill.

 

What's telling you you';re hitting 90 degrees? As I would expect your machine to be throwing out alarms and probably even shutting down at those temps - I usually set machines to shut down above 70 and that's being generous.; If games etc. are working fine, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

 

Your startup issue sounds like either a BIOS glitch or some kind of fault on the board, in which case try flashing your BIOS and see how you go.

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What's the spread and verticle line method??!

As Gav has said too much is bad. All you need is a grain of rice sized blob in the middle of the CPU and then apply the cooler. The pressure when it's secured will spread the paste itself.

Never, ever spread the paste yourself!

Any chance you can draw a diagram of you set up with the rad and case fans and the direction of air flow? It's hard to understand with your description.

If you're using the H100i I'm not sure why you're using a 240mm rad. Is that a separate one or the one for the H100i? Is this for the GPU? In which case you should be seeing lower temps than 75c what you've said.

You've also said you've got two fans blowing on to the rad inside and two on the outside bringing cool air in. Where are these positioned?

Cheers.

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The space between my case and motherboard means I can just about fit a 110m m pcie gpu, putting most good air coolers out the mix, I think the Max height is 120mm. Both hardware monitor and real temp are telling me those Temps under prime95 stress. The 240 rad comes with the h100.

I've applied the paste as a small vertical line, rice shaped. Originally I used the pre applied paste on the h100 and still had the same problem. All my fans and the rad are at the front of the case with 1 as an exhaust at the top. My setup is almost identical to this:

How to Build the Corsair Carbide Series Air 240 (Corsair Labs) - YouTube

With the cpu i cant seem to get the temps down and I'm going to reapply mx4 and take some fans out tonight. The GPU is fine at 75 with an evga acx 2 air cooler fitted out of the box, some of these on reference are known to hit over 80.

With the motherboard I'll try to flash but it seems I'm not the only person with a gene vii that has this problem:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1501452/pc-boots-twice-before-posting-and-then-boots-normally-to-windows-happens-only-cold-boot-when-i-turn-psu-off-and-put-it-back-on

Thanks for responding both. Any ideas or should I dump the h100?

EDIT: I applied the mx4 down the middle of the CPU heat shield. The idle temps are fine. The house and radiator feel cool which makes me think its contact issues. I have tightened it down as much as I could.

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Can you explain your fans further?

You got 4 yes? 2 inside and 2 outside. You can't have them all blowing towards the rad as the heat won't have anywhere to go. You need them in a push-pull or pull-push configuration. You can't have push-push.

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Sorry - yes 4... 2 pulling air into and onto the rad and 2 on the back of the rad putting air into the case chamber.

 

EDIT: Think I have fixed the BIOS issue with a flash and by turning off PLL overvoltage. One of these two changes resolved it.

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Can we have a picture just so everything is clear? I'm a bit lost about all the fan positions!

H100 comes with a dual rad. H80 is a single rad afaik.

This reminds me of the issues I had with my i7 930 build. You think you're doing everything right. You are doing everything right. But then after 3 months you realise you're not doing it right at all and bought the wrong bit/did it wrong.

The H100. The part of the heat sink that presses against the CPU, is it a mirror flat finish? Hope that makes sense!

I had a an air cooler for my i7 which name completely eludes me for some reason. It was an obscure make/brand. It was meant to be the dogs bollocks but the way in which the heat sink that contacted with the CPU was designed Meant it did not properly spread out the thermal paste as it should.

After literally 10 repeats using different methods, I got rid of it and upgraded to a Prolimatech Megahalems. The different design of the heat sink meant it instantly solved my problems.

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Trying to upload a vid to youtube as we speak.

 

The H100 is indeed dual rad and with regards to the air cooler are you reffering to the Titan Fenrir - I had the same problem with my 930 and subbed it for a Megahalems.

 

Fan wise as follows:

 

2 fans sucking air onto the rad at the front of the case....   then the rad... then 2 fans attached to the rad pushing air into the chamber

 

C = case

 

 

INSIDE CASE   <--|F3|R|F1|<--|C

INSIDE CASE   <--|F3|R|F1|<--|C

INSIDE CASE   <--|F4|R|F2|<--|C

INSIDE CASE   <--|F4|R|F2|<--|C

 

EDIT: Just reseated the thing again and now it's hitting over 100. 

 

EDIT EDIT: Looks like it could be the version of prime95 im using to test so basically now I'm in the situation where my temps were probably fine... but on the non overly stressing version of prime95 my temps are c.80 degress+. I have created a problem. Brill.

Edited by 2ney

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Does this help:

H100i issues:

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On the face of it from the video you're doing everything right.

The only thing that comes to mind are the stock fans that come with the H100 are very average. You get better performance from replacing them to a better fan, like the Be Quiet Silent Wings, or ones from Noctua.

Might be worth contacting Corsair and discussing it with them maybe?

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I don't understand this temperature thing - unless hardware design has changed dramatically in recent years, a CPU running at 80, 90 degrees would be virtually unusable - the OS would be sluggish, the machine would shutdown to prevent damage and you certainly wouldn't be able to play games.

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The i7-4790K and similar processors are high end and are designed to be run at capacity. As such they should be good to run at about 90c before they start to throttle. 

 

As far as I'm aware anyway.  It does seem excessively high though.

 

My older i5-2500K overclocked to 4.5GHz peaks at about 75c when I run Prime95. 

 

Since you've got the H100i have you accessed the Corsair Link software for it so see if the Pump is running as it should?  Maybe it's set on a minimum setting or something.

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The i7-4790K and similar processors are high end and are designed to be run at capacity. As such they should be good to run at about 90c before they start to throttle. 

 

As far as I'm aware anyway.  It does seem excessively high though.

 

My older i5-2500K overclocked to 4.5GHz peaks at about 75c when I run Prime95. 

 

Since you've got the H100i have you accessed the Corsair Link software for it so see if the Pump is running as it should?  Maybe it's set on a minimum setting or something.

 

I have got corsair link on and it says the pump is running at 2400ish rpm which I believe is fine. I have amended the BIOS too to get the fan controller to whack it on 100% constantly just in case the settings might affect it.  

 

In most games it only ramps up to 60ish as obviously Prime95 is a stress test tool and doesn't reflect real life.

 

There are 4 things I am going to try:

 

1) I have ordered some new fans to stick on which I will put on tomorrow.

2) I will re-apply the paste and actually try a bit more - the reason for this is the copper plate at the bottom of the h100 is susceptible to moving when its screwed down and it's quite a large surface area - my 1 worry is it's moving the paste away when it is being screwed down so with a bit more it might cover off any movement. I will also try a different paste (just gone back to order old skool AS5). this will help me determine if it's paste.

3) try changing the position of the pump on the fixture to help determine if it's a contact issue.

4) Replace the H100i with a new one or a H80i.

 

 

Everything else is running smoothly now - I just want to get a decent temp (don't even care for overclock tbh) so I am happy the CPU will last.

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For what it's worth, you could give Intel a ring - tell them you're worried it might be a problem with the CPU. I've always found their tech support people to be very helpful and friendly, so it's worth a shot.

Shogun likes this

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Thanks in particular to madwedge and gavpowell.

 

I have reapplied paste and just done a quick test in Intel Extreme Tuning and it hit mainly mid 60s and max 1 core at 70c.

 

Mix this up with the fact that I have reapplied the paste x amount of times, will be replacing the two standard fans with SP120 Quiets, and the fact I have both a small form case (where heat is in a smaller void) and the quiet version of the fans and to be honest I am happy - It is at least now in a range of temperatures that when under stress won't damage the CPU lifetime too much....

 

With a bit more testing on application of the paste and potentially at some point switching out and putting a newer / more preferable watercooler in (starting to think the H80i might have been better for my case) at some point in the future and I am sure it will be fine. Looking up a few tweaks in my Bios might improve things further too....

 

all in all... I'm just ready to game now but thanks again.

madwedge likes this

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